From Hobbyist to Logo Design Specialist

Ian Paget: Something I really like to do with this podcast is, as you probably are aware, is speak to people that work in logo design or people that work in sort of marketing, advertising and stuff like that, with the goal of helping people make a living in logo design. And I know from following you for quite a long time now that you are doing that, you you are always designing logos, putting out logos. So I think we should do some sort of background to you. So I'd be really interested to find out from you. How did you originally get into graphic design, more specifically logo design?

Mihai Dolganiuc: Yeah, so with graphic design I actually got into it from my teenage years, I would say, because I remember someone gave me a pirated copy of Photoshop as it happened, you know, at the time. Yeah, I have to admit it, like, and be honest with it. Didn't... Yeah.

Ian Paget: I did exactly the same, I think a lot of people did, because I don't know how old you are, but when I got into graphic design, there was no subscription. You had to pay like, I don't know, without checking, I'm not sure, but from memory it was like £6,000 or something like that for just to access the Adobe Suite. So I think a lot of people that started out like we did probably pirated it.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Yeah, mean, yeah, it's no shame in it, you know, at least now, you know, I'm honest and paying for it. But yeah, it started like this. I mean, I think I was genuinely genuinely like very curious. I spent a lot of time on forums, on design forums. We had like something local. It was a torrent website where there was a lot like design forums and got me really curious. I started like following, you know, sort of a lot of design tutorials, like how do you build fire in Photoshop? How do you make water droplets and so on? And that kind of started it. And I did that throughout my university years. So from 2008 to 2012, just mainly as a hobby, you know, I was studying and

When I came home I was just, you know, I needed something to do so, you know, I got into sort of amateurish graphic design. Wasn't making like any money at all. I was living with my parents still so I was okay financially. But as I headed towards graduation, you know, I started to like flirt with this idea. maybe I could give a chance, you know. Graphic design still didn't have like any idea what logo design is, but I understood like on a general level, you know, what does it do? But I wasn't aware, you know, of how like, how actually complex, you know, the field of logo design is. And then, yeah, I started, I graduated and then...

I was unemployed for like a big chunk of time, like eight, nine months I was looking like for jobs as a graphic designer. Nobody would really, you know, give me a chance because I didn't have like sort of the strong portfolio to say. I just had a bunch of logos, some logos, some banners, banner work, which was, weren't like the best.

But eventually like someone gave me a chance and I landed a job here in Moldova like in a local company I was hired more to be honest because I kind of had some English skills so that was like the the thing that got me hired to to be honest because skill wise my design skills were like very low but I think that's absolutely okay when you start, you know. But I had the desire, like I always had this curiosity in me, which I think is a natural trait for designers, like all of the designers that I discuss with and I notice this common trait, you know, all of them are curious. They want to explore, they want to find out, they want to connect with people and read books and so on. So I had that and I think it helped me a lot.

And then, yeah, I started, you know, just working, building up my portfolio. I understood, you know, I'm working for a company, but I always, I don't know where I got this from, but I understood, you know, that I have to keep up my portfolio and the upload works. And I wasn't doing it because I want, you know, to go freelance or find another job. just, you know, I thought it's great to have your works somewhere so you don't send to employers attachments and PDFs and so on. So just one link with Abihans, Dribble and so on. So I did that. And now looking back, it was actually a great thing to do because I had everything consolidated and in one place. So that helped me a lot. Yeah. And then, yeah.

Ian Paget: Just before you move on, do you mind me saying, so that first design job that you got, what type of work was you doing in that? Was it just like sort of general graphic design or was it a specific area? Yeah, sure.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Everything that you can think of, you know, when you think of graphic design and so in the beginning I actually, so I was just doing graphic design, banners for sports betting, so websites, so and then I would do like websites and then one day I think one of the managers asks me hey can you do some motion graphics and or some video editing and I had no idea how to do it to be honest but I said yes I said I said yes and then I went home and I remembered like specifically that moment because I downloaded Adobe Premiere and started watching like for until 3 a.m. or 4 a.m. all of the tutorials that I could get my hands on and

If you're familiar with the Adobe package, like with Illustrator and Photoshop, Premiere comes naturally to you. I mean, at least for me. I didn't have any problems, you know, learning it. And I remember I went the second day at work and put up together, you know, sort of a very poorly executed video with some typography on top of it and I send it to the manager and he said, okay, this should work. Yeah, yeah.

Ian Paget: You know, I think this is a really great story and I can relate with it because I think a lot of time when I think especially people that haven't worked in graphic design, they look at people like us that have been doing it a long time and they're like, they're specialized in that area and they kind of think that they can just jump straight into doing that, which I mean, to be fair, they probably could. But

Mihai Dolganiuc: Yeah.

Ian Paget: Like you, my first design jobs were, you know, you kind of did everything from like exhibition stands to websites to brochures, leaflets. I did a similar thing, you know how you said about the motion graphics? I had a video project that I needed to do. So like they hired out this like fancy camera kit.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Yeah, yeah.

Ian Paget: I never used any of this kit before, but they had me doing that and then I needed to learn Final Cut Pro and I just found some videos. I think I may have torrented them because there wasn't YouTube. I don't recall there being YouTube. Like there was nothing like there is now. Like that makes me sound really old. But when I started out, needed to find tutorial videos and I don't recall there being YouTube back then. I need to double check the dates that came out but I'm pretty sure I found like Lynda Learning which is now LinkedIn Learning. I found a load of the video tutorials and like you sat down and did them all in one day and I think this is a good lesson because I think people that are listening that want to get into design, I think it's good to be curious and open and willing to learn and sometimes you just have to do a bit of everything. It's not always the best work, but You know, it's it's an opportunity once you've got the opportunity. I'm sure it opened up other doors for you.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Yes, exactly. mean, to be honest, that's what kept me in the company because as I said, know, my graphic design skills back then weren't the best and like the leader, the design leader back then, he was very like harsh, should I say? very, I mean, he was a good person, but he was very strict, you know, with the designers that were on the team. Like I remember on day one, he actually mentioned like... Here we don't accept, you know, work that doesn't look good or I need to see what you can try at that time, you know, that motivated me a lot. And I think that's where the decision, you know, to say yes to something that was unknown. Because I needed to prove myself and to the company, you know, I belong here. And yeah, for me, that's a lesson, that I actually used, you know, even afterwards, many years after, you know, but sometimes you will not always be ready, you know, but if you say yes, and then you figure out along the way, and usually, you know, if we are put into these situations, we will find a way. I'm sure that a lot of people can relate to that. If you're put into a situation, you'll find a way and you will make it work. And then you'll look back and you'll be happy and thankful, you know, that you, that you did that. So yeah, that's my story.

Ian Paget: Yeah, also think, so when I used to work full time, I was in the position where I was hiring people for my team and you wasn't always looking for the best designer, you was looking for the best fit. And sometimes it was things like, you know, just personality and drive, determination, like it sounds like, Yyou know, you are someone that likes to learn, you would try, you would give it go, which is really good attitude. I mean, I think that's that's the kind of thing that people want for a company. Because I think the rest of it, like the design skills, the work, that stuff you can learn. But the, you know, the personality traits like you, you know, you sort of said yes to something and I went home and learned it. Not everyone is like that, and I think that's a good, you know, it's a very hirable trait. And you mentioned that they like that you spoke English as well. I assume that was so that you can communicate with the rest of the team in some way.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Exactly. Yeah, because it was an international team. There were people from Poland. One of the managers was from Poland. The founder was Austrian. so, yeah, we needed to communicate with everyone. But the whole work process also, like all of the discussions, the instructions were in English. So we needed someone to at least, you know, spoke conversational English, so yeah.

Ian Paget: Yeah, yeah, so they saw all these strong traits that like the design stuff, they probably thought, okay, we can help you, we can teach you, guide you. You know, you enough of a foundation to be able to do it, but to, you know, to take you to that next bar. Because I was in that position where I was hiring people and I know sometimes people did struggle, but you would teach them, you would spend time with them.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Yeah, yeah, that's teachable.

Ian Paget: If necessary, you would know sometimes like maybe take over the project but yeah you it sounds like you was a very hireable person they took you on board gave you the opportunity and then you know that's when you start to develop your skills and grow and cool so it's all right so how in in terms of going from that you know getting a job kind of doing a bit of everything.

I know you hadn't really done logo design at that point. How did you go from that to getting into logo design specifically to really focus in on logo design?

Mihai Dolganiuc: Yeah, so logo design to me came, you know, slowly and gradually. And, you know, as I was working and like the my skills were like the circle was narrowing down. Should I say it like that? So I was doing like everything, but, you know, on the side, I kind of saw that I'm really attracted to logo design, you know, and yeah.

Then I worked in another company and then I sharpened really well my web design skills and my typography and layout skills. On the site, I was freelancing on the site and I was taking on logo design projects like for $50, for $70, $100 and so on. So just starting rate for all of the designers.

And I noticed that I actually really, really liked this aspect of design. But at that time, like for me, it seemed impossible to like to even picture it to make a living out of logo design, to be honest. Like my mind was just completely limited. Should I say I couldn't grasp, you know, that someone can make a full living out of only logo design. And yeah, of course, this isn't something that you do overnight. You need to like sort of have a very strong portfolio. But most importantly, you need to have like a network. I think that's the most important part of people, know, and clients. And that's something that is done over time. Yeah, so then fast forward, I started freelancing in 2016. I worked for a company that provided like, I think you've heard like subscription based design services. They were popular a few years back and that's what we did there. It was a company from Australia and I worked there again, I did everything there like animations, websites and so on. yeah, from 2017 I started like freelancing like full-time remote all by myself and again doing everything but 50 % of the time I would do logo designs. Like for cheap costs, very low costs.

I would say yes to everything that would come my way if it was related to logo design because I understood that I need to build my portfolio. Also in that period of time I started uploading and being very active on Dribbble and Behance. So those were my main sort of channels, portfolios, should I say it like that. yeah, from there, Dribble started picking up really well. And yeah, it has been one of my best platforms that brought me clients over the years. Still brings in clients. And yeah, as well over time, I started to get to know a lot of designers from from Romania, from all over the world to whom I connected. yeah, sometimes those designers would also like recommend me as a logo designer in case they didn't, I don't know, couldn't take on the project and so on. So yeah, that's how kind of the logo design journey started. Yeah.

Ian Paget: Sure, I think I can imagine that a lot of people that are working on logo design primarily now, that have been doing it for quite some time can probably relate with that journey. And it's similar to mine where you kind of start off doing everything and then you slowly start kind of funneling down, specializing more. You do the work that you need to do to make an income, but you slowly just start funneling down, making decisions based on what you're enjoying, what you're liking, what you want to focus on. Am I understanding right? I mean, I'm just going based on your socials that I see, because I really like your profile and X. You share a lot of designs that you're working on, some behind the scenes stuff, which is really nice to see. I think you're a really good person to follow for anyone that's into design logos to see process stuff. Are you making a living from logo design exclusively now or are you still doing a mix of things?

Mihai Dolganiuc: I would say that my income is 80% from logo design right now. Of course, I can't do only logo design, know, bills have to be paid and they also have to be like busy. So I also do like visual identities from time to time. I'll do like general graphic design. Like if some sort of referral comes from a client, know, well, they need like, for example, a banner. I'll do it, you know, a promo banner, for example, for exhibitions and so on. You know, I can do it because, you know, at the end of the day, I have the skills for graphic design. Like I know the foundations, know, the typography, the distribution on the page, like the composition and so on, the color theory, of course. So yeah, I do that as well, but my main source of income is logo design right now. I've reached a point in my career where I can actually live only off logo design. That was my dream back in 2015 when I was designing everything. So I'm kinda living the dream right now, and also freelancing.

Ian Paget: Well, I'm similar. My main, what I would say my main bread and butter, know, like the main work that comes in is logo design, like all leads, all inquiries, every single one of them is all Ian, I need a logo. But because like you, I've been there, done all of it, you know, all of any types of graphic design, I have a lot of clients that like working with me. So they're like, Ian, can you help me with this exhibition, this pull-up banner or this leaflet or this website or whatever. And, you know, I need to make a living, you know, I have bills to pay and, you know, it's money at the end of the day and I can do the work, I can do it to a high standard and, you know, that's the way it needs to be. But like you, I could do just logo design if I wanted to.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Exactly.

Ian Paget: And I think, you know, from a marketing point of view, from an external point of view, I don't know if this is the case for you, but it looks like it. You just show the logo design because that's the work that you want more of. And I think that's one of the main things really is just show the type of work that you want and show more of that. And if you wanted to make a shift and just do a specific style or a specific specific area of graphic design just start showing it it's it's really as simple as that really.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Yeah, I mean, I've always said that we designers have a superpower. We can show the work that we want to do. Like if we are persistent with it and consistent, like a year only of sharing logos will bring you a lot of logo design work. Maybe not a lot in the beginning and not with the biggest budgets, but it will bring you a logo design work if that's what you want to do. But you have to understand that there will be periods of time where you won't have logo design projects. That's absolutely okay. You can be busy all year long. So you have to think of other ways, other streams of income. I don't know. You can do...

I know some friends that are as well positioned as logo design specialists, but they also do like pitch text presentations, for example, they do like animations. So in the periods where they don't have like any logo design inquiries or projects, they do that because people know that they can handle those projects as well. But they are known mostly and specifically for logo design. And yeah, I think that's a good thing because I think when there's this big debate, you know, between specialists and generalists, I see it every time on Twitter and on LinkedIn. And I think both are good and you can choose whatever you want. But when you are a specialist, you know, that that allows you to choose your positioning and clients don't have sort of a difficult decision when approaching you to decide whether they want to work with you because it makes the decision much easier for them to reach out to you and to contact you and then once they get to know you they can see that, okay,

This guy is good at doing logos, but he can also do something else. So I think it works, you know, like sort of an attraction mechanism where you pull people and clients to you by showing one specific expert skill, but then you show that you also have range. Like you can't get into logo designers, specialists, you know, without knowing the foundations. You have to know typography, you have to know how things work on the page because you at the end of the day, you never present, you know, logos on a blank page. You always create like presentations and mock-ups and that by itself, you know, requires some other skills, you know, that you can again show to your clients. An example that I can think of and it's very basic like even the invoice that you sent to your clients. That's another way of proving your work. If you design it correctly and you brand it according to your personal brand, again, clients will see that and they will appreciate it. Maybe you'll get some design for invoicing or some other presentations. I don't know, I think of it this way.

Ian Paget: Yeah, I think that's one of the real benefits of working specifically with logo design is that you can put yourself out there as the specialist expert and so on. But once you're working with a client, a lot of them are startups and they will need additional support. if you are able to help with that, then that opens up other avenues for additional work. One thing I would say, and I don't want to focus too much on this topic, there's other stuff I want to dig into, but I find when you do specialize in an area, one of the real benefits is that you can productize and systematize. And I don't know if this is the same for you, but

Because logo design is like the main thing I do, when it comes around to sales goals, I know exactly what to say in every single scenario. It's almost like I say the same thing over and over and over again. And because I've said it so many times, it just comes out so comfortably, confidently and reassuring. But then like every step throughout the entire process, I've got template emails, systems processes in place, templates for the presentations.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Exactly.

Ian Paget: You know, every, everything I know exactly what's going to happen at every single point. There's, there's no, unexpected, issues. It's like start to finish done. And I know how long, projects take on average, how much, how many projects I need to take on a month to make a living from it. Like it's, it's, it's predictable, repeatable and easy.

Mihai Dolganiuc: Exactly.

Ian Paget: But if say, have a client that wants a website doing, I don't have systems in place for when they don't get the content back over to me, you know, because it's not my main specialist thing. Yeah, it was where I used to work, but account managers had all those processes and systems. So it's like, it's, it just takes more time and more energy. And although I'm, you know, although I've made income from it, it's almost like an inconvenience to me.

Mihai:
Yeah.

Ian Paget:
because it doesn't sit within my usual model. So I do think that's one of real benefits of specializing is that you can create these systems, processes, models and stuff like that so that you can just run through easily and it becomes predictable and repeatable. Anyway, so there was a few things that you mentioned that was really key for you to go from working for companies doing kind of everything to now working freelance, working independently, working primarily on logo design. And one of those was network. Do you mind sharing some advice on that or things that you've done to build that network and kind of take advantage of that network once you have it?

Mihai (30:48.209)
Yeah, so for example, I can give you a specific example from my experience back in 2017, so when I started freelancing, I started, you know, like discussing with another designer from Romania, we actually saw each other and that relationship like we built...

It has built, it was built over time. We still communicate right now. We sometimes even share like, know, referrals, like if he can't take on a project, you know, or he and the client haven't aligned, you know, on the budget, he will refer to me and the other way around. It could be me that, for example, can refer him to a client.

And I think just, the, but the most important part is not even being even the referrals. I think it's the relationship and the help that you provide each other. So we would communicate a lot on messenger on Skype and share, you know, designs back and forth. Like I'll do a log on and ask him, Hey, what do you think about this? And then we'll sort of change it and he will do the same, you know, when he's stuck with an idea. So.

That kind of relationships are very helpful for you as a designer because you as a freelancer mostly work alone. So I think it's extremely important to develop all kinds of interactions and relationships. But in terms of networking, I also refer to social media.

because this has been the game changer, to be honest. I don't think even today we won't be discussing if it wasn't for social media and for me not being active on Twitter and sharing my design process and so on. yeah, LinkedIn, for example, has been a just game changer for me. it's just...

Mihai (33:11.131)
deviated my whole trajectory as a freelancer in getting clients, in getting exposure because that's also important. I always say that attention is in itself a different form of currency. We get paid with money, but we also need attention as much as people.

Don't like this, you know, because don't or don't want to talk about it. It may be a taboo, taboo, you know, subject, you know, but I don't know. You should keep humble or be modest. My understanding of this is different. I think you should try to rise up to get attention, you know, as much as you can, but attention because of your work, not, you know, other.

other things. and finally in terms of networking, Twitter and X, how do people call it, very, again, very life-changing for me. A lot of work, a lot of inquiries and most importantly a lot of people. I've connected with a lot of people there, including you.

And although we've known each other, you know, even before Twitter and from Facebook, I was always part of the LogoGeek group on Facebook. And I actually remember that I took a look through all of your podcasts and I remembered that I actually listened to your first podcast with Chris Doe. Cause that's the period when I started also, you know, looking up to everything that the future was doing and Chris Doe and...

Ian Paget (35:05.958)
That's when he kind of started to be honest. wasn't that... Yeah, was maybe like a year or less before then. Because I remember when I connected with Chris originally, I didn't know who he was. He'd not long done all the stuff with Jose and started out on his own. So that was about 10 years ago.

Mihai (35:06.577)
yeah yeah yeah yeah 2017 18 something like that yeah yeah

Mihai (35:29.05)
Yeah.

Mihai (35:33.485)
Yeah, sort of like that, yeah.

Ian Paget (35:33.662)
And I think a lot of people got really into, I got really lucky when I created my group is that was kind of like the peak, peak time of design communities. I, they are, yeah, it's very difficult because I've been trying to kind of revive the community that I built because the Facebook algorithms.

Mihai (35:46.607)
Yeah, exactly. Now they are lost a bit, to be honest.

Ian Paget (36:02.918)
don't like groups that are inactive and it's really difficult if you've had a group for like 10 years a lot of people are left Facebook or just don't use it or you know some people have sadly passed away and their accounts are still active and Facebook algorithms they when you post they show it to a certain percentage and if they show it to the percentage that aren't using it then they think nobody cares about this post so

Mihai (36:07.13)
Yeah, yeah.

Ian Paget (36:30.62)
What I did is I decided to just like do a reboot and that has helped but it's just it's not the same as it used to be unfortunately and

Mihai (36:39.845)
Yeah, yeah, I remember it was like really, really strong on Facebook. Like there was so many people active on the Logo Geek group, including me, you know, sharing, you know, just logo collections. And it was, it was really an awesome community because whenever you had like a question, people will like were coming up with genuine, you know, and authentic.

answers and were actually trying to help. So, yeah.

Ian Paget (37:11.346)
Yeah, I think unfortunately communities online has become very diluted. I think after COVID people kind of felt burnt out from, you know, from being active. And I think even though, you know, we're a few years on, I think that that's kind of still lingering and affected people. But I'm doing what I can to...

Mihai (37:16.965)
Yeah.

Mihai (37:31.277)
Exactly.

Ian Paget (37:34.078)
keep it active and it is still active but it's you know these online communities just aren't the same as what they were and I'll keep doing what I can but it's it's tricky because there's so many different social platforms now it's become sort of so diluted that everyone's not in the same place anymore they're sort of scattered all over these different platforms but it is what it is. Cool so I know

Mihai (37:44.347)
Mm-hmm.

Ian Paget (38:04.598)
You mentioned about X. That's how I always remember you. And I think I like what you said about attention. And I want to add that.

Like when you present your work, something I always say to people is always, always talk about it positively. I think this is like, like the only person that can really sell your work is you. And I think also, I think you're really the only person that can sell yourself as well. Like if you are an award-winning designer, say it, share it, post it. yeah.

Mihai (38:26.097)
Exactly.

Mihai (38:40.837)
Yeah, you shouldn't be ashamed of sharing it.

Ian Paget (38:44.592)
It's difficult because I think a lot of designers are like us, where we're quite reserved and don't like to shout out about ourselves or blow our own trumpets. I you mentioned this, but you really have to. Because I've personally put out so much content now over the past 10 years, writing, creating podcasts, doing interviews.

Mihai (38:57.478)
Yeah.

Ian Paget (39:13.63)
And, you know, it's got to the point now where you can ask, like, AI, who are the best designers in the UK? And I'm one of them based on AI. I mean, in reality, it might not be that way, but because I've been sharing stuff, putting myself out there and, you know, singing my own praises, even though it's uncomfortable to do, I think I do think it's really important to.

Mihai (39:26.277)
This is awesome.

Ian Paget (39:41.982)
Put yourself out there have your own voice and be visible I think as well with you You post a lot on on X and I know if you didn't do that I wouldn't have thought of you for a podcast guest it was purely purely that

Mihai (39:47.761)
Okay, that's what.

Mihai (40:00.689)
Yeah, that's how it works. Some people will say fortunately, some unfortunate, but that's how we got connected because my work has been seen by many people and one of those people were you. that's where, yeah.

Ian Paget (40:25.276)
I keeping people top of mind. That's what you're doing. It's like we connected. know that you're doing, I know that you're into logo design and I know we've known you a long time, but it literally you are posting so much on X that when you search logo designer, logo design, your stuff comes up and it's always really good. And it's why I always thought, you know, I need to get you on the podcast because I followed your work for so long and I really love what you do. It's like, you you, you know, you should be on a guest on the show.

Mihai (40:38.885)
You

Mihai (40:43.621)
And also, yeah.

Mihai (40:54.297)
Yeah, well, my strategy has always been, you I mean, you should talk so much about what you do, but people get a bit, you know, a bit annoyed. If I can say it like that, a bit, a bit, you know, within, you know, like normal measures. And that's how people remember you. Okay, some people can, might ignore you because you can share too much on X.

Ian Paget (41:06.136)
True

Mihai (41:23.674)
I also do that.

Ian Paget (41:24.764)
come on, I mean if someone's following your account because they want logo design information and if they don't want to see it they don't need to look at it because it's as simple as that.

Mihai (41:32.101)
Yeah, yeah, you can always choose not to look. That's what I also do. Like there are accounts, know, but you can, I mean, you couldn't simply ignore them like visually just scroll. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Ian Paget (41:41.95)
Yeah, ignore them, unfollow them, whatever. It doesn't mean that you don't like the person. So you also mentioned that you're really strong on LinkedIn. I don't think I... Have I got you connected on LinkedIn? We need to sort that out after this, but what are you doing on LinkedIn that's working so well for you?

Mihai (42:00.111)
Yeah, we should.

Mihai (42:04.465)
I share a lot of my thoughts on LinkedIn, but I also share the same work that I also share on the other social media platforms. It's just that I try to pack it in a different way. I'll write some different texts. I might change some of the presentations for LinkedIn.

Another strategy of mine was doing unofficial redesigns for logos that no one ever asked for because designers like to do that. We like to have an opinion and voice it and take the Adobe logo and redesign it even though no one asked for. But once again, we're going back to attention and...

I think, I also think of unofficial designs, know, as a way of keeping your creativity in check and, you know, showing the world your way of thinking. My best example probably would be Alan Peters, which you are familiar with already. And I mean, take a look at what he's done with his Instagram page.

and his whole online persona. He grew, I mean, how many followers does he have right now? And I'm talking to him sometimes and he said that he's busier than ever and he sometimes even refers the overload of work to other designers. So I think that's one example that we can show to designers when it comes to...

If you have an idea for something, just share it. Do it on LinkedIn, do it on X. Don't think too much, you know, what are people gonna say? No one asks him to... The logo is fine, why is he redesigning it? Just do it. And then, you know, everything will work out. Another example of that...

Ian Paget (44:22.344)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mihai (44:31.505)
I can think of is... I think it was 2019. So I saw the logo of the store from the USA, 7-Eleven. And yeah, I just had an idea of how to redesign the logo. I'm not saying it's the best idea, but I shared it on LinkedIn. And back then, like my presence wasn't like... I didn't have like a very big following.

But I remember that that post like blew up blew up And it got like 6,000 likes on LinkedIn I even have the original post right now and a lot and back then yeah, yeah and like I don't know 300 and something comments and I was trying to respond to all of them and

Ian Paget (45:16.914)
That's a lot for LinkedIn man. That's crazy for LinkedIn.

Mihai (45:30.051)
I will admit I even got a few clients from that post. So that was one of my strategies for LinkedIn, not only for LinkedIn, also Dribbble. And by the way, that 7-Eleven post is still shown on different blogs, design blogs. I even saw it a few days ago.

because they just keep on reposting, you know, same stuff. And I saw it on Facebook. Again, I'm not very active on Facebook again, but I saw it and it was reposted by some design blog. And the title of the blog post was that designers are reimagining, you know,

famous logos and some of them even look better. yeah.

Ian Paget (46:32.826)
I think it's interesting that you brought this topic up because I, as designers, right, we're designers. We're not Alan Peters target audience. I know he has created books and content for designers, but he wants client work in the same way that we do. And I know that Alan's fixing logos has upset so many friends of mine.

Mihai (46:52.443)
Exactly.

Mihai (47:00.46)
yeah. my god.

Ian Paget (47:02.46)
Like I've had conversations about this. He's had like death threats over this, by the way, know, like physical death threats over it. But I think the most important thing is, okay, I don't really like it when designers take out, you know, decide they're gonna go and fix a logo. I think it's kind of rude to the original designer. They don't understand the work that went into that project.

Mihai (47:07.066)
Exactly.

Yes, as I saw.

Ian Paget (47:29.106)
And I think it's kind of disrespectful to do personally. That's my personal take on it. But I'm aware that, well, I would say, especially if it's a project that's just gone live, like a company releases a logo, put it live. I think it's so rude to start redesigning it, sharing your own. Yeah, I don't like it, but it doesn't matter. I'm not Alan's target customer. He's creating content. He's getting attention.

He's putting out there, making himself known, making himself the expert. He's doing, you know, kind of doing it for fun, for content, to share it with people. And you know what, he, because, you know, so many well-known designers, very vocal online, have had an issue with what he's been doing. And a lot of designers are copying it. And I personally have an issue with some of it, because some of it is just highlighting

Mihai (47:57.873)
Exactly.

Ian Paget (48:26.888)
what they don't know about design. Like they're redesigning these famous logos and then just ruining them in my opinion. So that's my kind of take on it. But Alan doesn't care what I think. It doesn't care what you think. We're not gonna give him any money to design a logo. He is targeting or he's getting the attention of his target audience, which is...

Mihai (48:44.314)
Exactly.

Ian Paget (48:55.386)
non-designers, customers, business owners, and they see it, they like it, they share it, they're interested by it. Like logo design is a very interesting topic, even if you're not into design. It's just kind of cool to see how it would just be reimagined and he does it in a really nice way and he gets across his personality and he gets attention. Not always the best attention from the design community, but he's getting the attention of everyone.

Mihai (48:57.435)
Exactly. His clients.

Mihai (49:08.047)
Yeah, yeah.

Ian Paget (49:25.608)
Like in the past few interviews I've done, think the last one I did, someone else mentioned Alan Peters, people are talking about him. He's got the attention of us, of Target customers, and he's growing a massive audience because of it. So, you know, like it or loathe it is working for him. So, you know, that's, he's a good example of showing how you can get attention.

Mihai (49:25.755)
Yeah.

Mihai (49:53.263)
Yeah, and I think it works for him. I just wanted to add, know, we designers might not like what he's doing, but the clients and his target audience doesn't really, I think they don't really care about the fact that he is redesigning logos because all that they see is his skills, you know, and his strategic thinking, you know, on

his thought process on how he redesigned that logo. I also, I'm gonna be honest, yeah, probably fix isn't the best term, but yeah, for some reason, I think he also admitted, you know, that it's not the best term, but you know, it gets people going, so.

Ian Paget (50:33.758)
You

Ian Paget (50:43.856)
It gets people talking and he's really good. his stuff is always really good. I enjoy it. Sometimes I'm like, nah, just not. I don't like that. Like the Marvel one. I really didn't like that, but I liked his thought process and I liked the idea and I like how he presented it. But again, it's not for me, you know? I mean, I watch it as entertainment and education and I do learn stuff from him. And it's working really, really well.

Mihai (50:48.656)
Yeah.

Ian Paget (51:13.182)
And I love Alan. Alan is the most amazing guy ever and I'm sure he will be totally fine with me talking about this in the way I am. Okay. He will. I'll let him know.

Mihai (51:25.092)
I hope so.

Mihai (51:29.787)
I mean he seems like a very kind and nice person so...

Ian Paget (51:36.54)
Yeah, Alan's amazing. Okay, so I think it's important that we also talk about Dribbble, because you mentioned that a lot of work started to come your way when you were posting on Dribbble. Is that still as good now as it was when it was working well for you?

Mihai (51:36.795)
He'll do

Mihai (51:58.121)
yeah, I mean, honestly, a bit the flow has shortened or yeah.

Ian Paget (52:06.48)
Okay, I think it's just because it's not as popular as it once was, but is the work still coming from it? Are you still getting referrals from it? Still getting...

Mihai (52:10.512)
Yeah.

Mihai (52:14.745)
I still get inquiries. Yeah, not some of them like lead to an actual project or clients, but yeah, I still get work from Jibun.

Ian Paget (52:17.585)
Okay.

Ian Paget (52:30.614)
And what are you doing to get that? Is it case of like how active, how much are you needing to post? What are you sharing?

Mihai (52:39.939)
I think with Dribbble, main thing is, of course, you have to be consistent, you know, when sharing. But what I also noticed, you have to have visual consistency within your whole profile and feed of works, because when clients are reaching out to you, they want to see, you know, consistency within all of your works. And also they want to see that

you kind of belong to a certain industry. So my clients are mostly, have and always been from the startup scene, tech startups. Now a lot of AI companies, I've worked with a lot of AI startups and, redesigns or just from scratch we'll design something.

So I think that's one important aspect. If you focus on typographic logos, you will find work in that field. And for me, that's what helped me. I've always tried to share work that is visually consistent with the work that I want to get. So if I want to work with...

I don't know, an AI startup or Claude or OpenAI, I will share something related to that. But to answer the question, yeah, Drupal is still a good source of leads. It has changed in the last years because they've modified the policies a bit.

Now you can't type in your email address or share any contact info. But for me it still works. I just do everything within the platform and it doesn't bother me to be honest. No problem for me.

Ian Paget (54:55.998)
Is there a case that you are, because I know you've mentioned quite a few things that you're focusing on, like you've got your LinkedIn, you've got your X, you've got your Dribbble. I assume that there might be some other bits and pieces to that. Are you kind of creating one piece of content and then just posting it on everything?

Mihai (55:16.597)
I try to vary it, but most of the time I share the same post on all of my social medias.

Ian Paget (55:24.018)
Yeah, so it's the same design, say, but you're just adapting it slightly for each platform. So that's OK.

Mihai (55:29.395)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I can share like only the logos on Twitter and some mock-ups or presentations, you know, on Dribbble. So, but sometimes I also try to, you know, to modify the posts. So I can share, for example, only on X and on Twitter and then wait a couple of days and share on Dribbble.

we have the same post.

Ian Paget (56:04.922)
I think that's a good way to do it. Something I always advise a lot of designers that might be watching this, you are doing quite a lot. I tend to recommend to focus on one specifically and put all your time and energy into that because it can be really difficult to be working on design projects.

six year old daughter. I can't do as much as I used to just because it's like I can't be working all the time and even if I try to work when I've got my daughter she will start climbing on me. So I just can't say you know people need to be realistic with their time and it's it's really difficult to kind of be posting everywhere in the way that you are. So I generally recommend or advise

Mihai (56:38.057)
Yeah.

Mihai (56:43.954)
Mm-hmm.

Ian Paget (57:02.878)
focus on one and make that your main one and then if you get time for the other ones then obviously DEDEX it's it's worth it's clearly worked for you. You you are getting the work coming in from all these different areas. yeah. Okay so one last topic I want to discuss with you. So on your website you have a shot

Mihai (57:23.007)
Yeah, yeah.

Ian Paget (57:31.383)
and you are selling pre-designed logos, which I find really interesting. Do you mind me asking, is this working for you?

Mihai (57:40.757)
Yeah, surprisingly, it's working, to be honest. I came up with this idea because I would always end up with a lot of unused ideas from projects because I sketch a lot, do a lot of sketching and I always share like my go-to number of concepts to present with logo design is usually like three concepts.

They are different from one another and of course one gets chosen. So then you are left with two other design concepts. Sometimes even more like I recently had a project but I ended up with like I don't know nine or ten unused logo directions. One got selected but the other ones of course didn't so...

I mean, I have to do something with them. So I started listing them on Dribble, you know, design directions that didn't make it past the final approval. And I was marking them as unused and for sale. And somehow, you know, people started reaching out and...

asking if they could buy that logo. And yeah, one thing about the unused logos is that they usually go below what my rates for logo design are. I mean, you get to to invest, to have a logo that you actually like and see. Like you don't have to go through all of these stages of custom logo made from scratch.

which of course is much better, you know, to have a design. But if you see something that you like, you know, you get to, I mean, you get to have it right away. And yeah, the thing is, you know, it has to relate to the business. So it could be a letter form, you know, that matches the, you know, the energy of the company, or it could be an abstract symbols, you know, abstract symbols. They tend to sell well.

Mihai (01:00:08.245)
as well as letter forms like those are probably the most the ones that sell the best and I would say also also mascots tend to so yeah but the idea is you know you see something that you like you know you are the founder of the company you know what your company stands for you know what it needs and

If you are in the beginning and you don't have like...

very big budget to spend on a logo design project from scratch or visual identity and so on. I mean, you can buy a pre-made logo and then over time you can see, you can update it or you can keep on using it. But for me, mean, for me it works and the same goes for other designer friends of mine who are also sharing unused logos.

mostly from on Dribble, also from Wax. Like I sold a logo one year ago. So it was in March, 2025 to a company from Ireland. They saw the logo, like it was a very good fit, know, like visually, visually it was a very good fit for what they already had. And the actual, like the founder contacted me.

contacted me on Twitter and asked, we did a couple of revisions and I added typography, but yeah, I sold the logo and yeah, he was very happy with it. yeah, bottom line is, you know, it works and I encourage our designers to do it as well.

Ian Paget (01:02:05.264)
interesting. It's interesting to know that it does work. I've seen some other designers try it it hasn't really worked for them. Well, it hasn't worked for them because they haven't got anything. you've got a lot on your website and I think that's a nice way of using stuff that you've already done. That's already been paid for because it was included within a project. So you're just getting some

Mihai (01:02:06.217)
Yeah.

Mihai (01:02:23.701)
You

Ian Paget (01:02:33.246)
extra income from it. So yeah, it's interesting. I think it's worth me adding. So another thing that I've seen people do with unused designs. So I can't think of the guy's surname, but Paul, who designed the Apex twin logo. He, what he does is he has all these big illustrator files.

Mihai (01:02:35.379)
Yeah, yeah.

Mihai (01:02:51.455)
Mm-hmm.

Mihai (01:03:02.25)
Mm-hmm.

Ian Paget (01:03:02.404)
A to Z. So when he creates like an alphabet, he will just copy and paste and store it in there. And then what he will do is sometimes when he has a project, he will open it up and think, can I use anything from here? So it saves a lot of time with some projects, because what he's done is great. It's good. It's just unused and could work well for someone else. he just, rather than...

Mihai (01:03:09.055)
Mm-hmm.

Mihai (01:03:15.541)
Yeah, yeah.

Ian Paget (01:03:29.298)
you what I do, which probably isn't the most efficient way of doing it. I just, you know, project to project. Anything that's unused just kind of stays in a, you know, in a vector file within that project. But I think what he does is a nice way of doing it. And then in addition to that, it's nice what you're doing. I assume that when they buy it from you, they are buying the exclusive rights to it and they own it outright. Like it's their logo now.

Mihai (01:03:38.547)
Mm-hmm.

Mihai (01:03:57.193)
Yeah, I mean, I only sell it, you know, as exclusive because I mean, who wants to buy something, you know, that will be sold to another person once again, you want to own, you know, what you buy. And yeah, I just sell it exclusively. I market a sold on Tribble. Like if I have it on Tribble, for example, I will put in the description description that is sold.

Ian Paget (01:04:08.137)
yeah, exactly.

Mihai (01:04:24.733)
And that also kind of acts like a, like a proof, but this logo is online, you know, and, you know, since I share most of my logos, you know, when I designed them, I share them like directly on Dribbble that serves also as a timestamp, you know, for when the logo was created, because many, many times my logos were stolen and I could use, you know, the Dribbble post, you know, it's, hey,

That was when I created it. That's the date. yeah, also for the client is a good way to keep up, to have proof that this logo was bought from a designer and it won't be sold to someone else. So yeah, that's the main idea.

Ian Paget (01:05:17.756)
Nice. Yeah, you've proven that it works and how you've done it on your website is nice. So what I'll do is I'll make sure that in the show notes for this that I put a link to that so that people can check it out to see how you've done it. And also, I think one thing that's nice with that is there's always going to be times when you're working where it is quite a... like for me, always...

Mihai (01:05:33.276)
Thank you.

Mihai (01:05:44.969)
Yeah.

Ian Paget (01:05:46.974)
sort of December, January, I'm always really, really busy with new work, you know, it sort of gets to the end of the year and people start thinking about what they want to do in a new year or you get people that are kind of doing the new year's resolutions and like there's always times of the year where there are budgets involved, know, pre-tax returns and all this sort of stuff. So there's times like that when I'm always really busy and then there's times like, like I would say around now

Mihai (01:05:52.671)
Same.

Mihai (01:05:58.407)
They have badges. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian Paget (01:06:16.54)
where it is a little bit quieter. Thankfully, I'm busy still because of all the work that came in during January, but it's just there's times when it's going to get quieter. And obviously, that's a really good time to do things like case studies or create some content or do some marketing or whatever. Although you should ideally be doing that ongoing anyway. But if you haven't, that's a good time to do it. But also in your case, you can sit down and work on some logo projects and

Mihai (01:06:38.697)
Yeah, yeah.

Ian Paget (01:06:45.31)
start sharing that on the socials and hopefully get some income out of that eventually once somebody shows interest and wants to buy it from you.

Mihai (01:06:55.231)
Yeah, exactly.

Ian Paget (01:06:57.704)
Cool, okay, so we've been speaking for ages now. Yeah, we're well over our hour. So I think what I'll do is we're wrapping this up now. So final question, where can people learn more about you and check out your stuff?

Mihai (01:07:00.371)
Yeah, yes

Mihai (01:07:10.965)
I mean, I would say that I'm more than active on Twitter, ex. I spend a lot of time there. Probably my most active social channel. I am also on Instagram at mihaj.design. LinkedIn as well. Yeah, and that's it for the like these social channels also.

Ian Paget (01:07:39.902)
I'll put links to those in the show notes for this so that people go and check out what you're doing and follow you along. Like I said, I have something that I really enjoy from you. Well, most recently, what comes to mind is you are sharing some really good process stuff. So I think a lot of the time people are sharing just like the final thing. But I personally love to see the behind the scenes stuff.

Mihai (01:07:40.393)
Yeah, yeah, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Mihai (01:08:07.987)
Yeah, same.

Ian Paget (01:08:08.38)
So all the development work and you share some really nice like screenshots of your Illustrator files and you see like the vast amount of work that goes into a project that people don't see like all these explorations, all these experiments. And, you know, it shows why some companies need to spend millions of pounds on a logo is because of the sheer amount of work.

Mihai (01:08:20.405)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ian Paget (01:08:35.198)
experimentation of work, trial and error that needs to go into a project and what you're sharing is a really nice example of that.

Mihai (01:08:43.487)
Yeah, I mean, logo design, you know, is not easy, you know, as opposed to what some people think. Yeah, yeah, it looks easy because we make it look easy. You the final logo design is polished, minimal, and you kind of think, that's a simple shape. And it's correct. It's a simple shape, but simple things, you know, they need time for you to achieve that simplicity.

Ian Paget (01:08:52.71)
It looks easy, but it's not.

Mihai (01:09:13.269)
Because if you don't put in the time, then it becomes basic. And basic and simple are very two different things. Although some people, you know, they think it's the same thing. It's not. Like simple things, take a lot of time because you start with something complex and then you narrow it down. You strip away everything that doesn't need to be there. And you end up, you know, with a...

Final simple logo that actually is scalable, works, is unique, meets trademark expectations. it's a lot of criteria that go into making a very good logo. not easy by far, but doable if you put in the time and explore.

sketch as much physically as you can to basically find out all of the ideas you know that you can find and then just find the best ones.

Ian Paget (01:10:29.246)
Cool, brilliant. So thank you so much for your time. It's been really nice to finally chat with you. I know we've known each other a long time now, but we've not had an actual face-to-face conversation. I hope that, you know, others that have maybe also followed you may not have, you know, seen your face or heard your voice and hopefully enjoyed this as well. So, you know, seriously, thank you so much for your time. It's been a really wonderful conversation.

Mihai (01:10:31.795)
Thank you so much.

Mihai (01:10:36.693)
Exactly.

Mihai (01:10:50.089)
Ciao.

Mihai (01:10:55.401)
Thank you as much for the invite Ian and yeah, this was my first podcast. I'm very glad that you invited me and I'm just once again amazed by the power of social media and how we connected and it's everything that, yeah, yeah.

Ian Paget (01:11:14.182)
It's a domino effect. Seriously, it's a domino effect. You got to keep doing it. And then opportunities, a door will open and then that will open. Like it's quite likely that people will listen to this, that have podcasts and then get you on theirs, which does, I know that happens. know that happens. So hopefully, hopefully this is the first of many. I think it's important because, people...

Mihai (01:11:19.196)
Every day.

Mihai (01:11:32.165)
I am open for it.

Ian Paget (01:11:37.694)
When you are when you aren't on podcasts, they don't know what you sound like, what you look like. So it's a risk, you know, it's a risk to get an unknown person. Yes, it's a risk to get an unknown person on a podcast. Like, are they going to be able to answer questions properly and so on? You know, it's always a risk. But once you've been on one or two, they can see that there's proof. And that's the case with it with everything. You're just providing proof that you're able to do this. So hopefully this will be the first of many.

Mihai (01:11:44.041)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't know you. They don't know you and...

Mihai (01:12:00.799)
Yeah.

Mihai (01:12:06.997)
Hopefully.

Ian Paget (01:12:08.21)
Yeah, honored to be honored to be the first.

Mihai (01:12:11.539)
Yeah, you've turned down the walls of me getting on podcasts. yeah, honestly, when you wrote to me on Twitter the first time, I was a bit nervous, to be honest, because we designers, I don't know, we are all a bit in our own shells. We like to do our own thing, but I encourage designers to speak up.

Ian Paget (01:12:26.174)
You

Mihai (01:12:39.861)
To go on calls with clients as often as you can especially if English is not your first language, know That's an opportunity. That's an opportunity a free English lesson for you to to go out there and talk to Talk to people and get because there are some people who pay for English lessons you get to discuss with someone, you know, who's from the USA and You know get to pick up, know sort of

words and ideas and yeah just I know it's easy to close ourselves and not talk to people and you know avoid calls and be on emails and so on I get that I was like that as well but yeah yeah same I think

Ian Paget (01:13:27.462)
I'm like that too. My phone was just ringing just now, company from the, I think it's from the US and it's funny, even though I'm like speaking to someone, it just makes me feel nervous. Like, am I going to pick that up? Do I feel like picking that up? I need to like prep myself up to call them back. But when it comes in international, it's like, I need to answer that now.

Mihai (01:13:37.939)
done

Mihai (01:13:42.035)
I know, I know what you're saying.

Mihai (01:13:47.423)
Hahaha

Mihai (01:13:52.147)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah.

Ian Paget (01:13:54.792)
Alright then, brilliant, yeah, like I said, thank you so much for your time, it's been absolutely amazing. Cool, so what I will do now is press that stop button. Just before I do, can you say your name so I got something to reference back to for the introduction?

Mihai (01:13:59.999)
Thank you very much, Jan.