David Airey Returns: The Enduring Love for Logo Design

Ian Paget: Hi David. So it's fantastic to have you back on the podcast. It's been about seven or eight years since you were last a guest on this podcast. You were one of my very first guests, and since it's been so long and because you've got a new edition of your book coming out early next year, I thought this would be a great opportunity to have you on to catch up and to talk a little bit about your book. So thank you for coming back on.

David Airey: It's a pleasure; it's great to be chatting with you as always. So, yeah, thanks for the support.

Ian Paget: And with video this time as well. Okay, so I'm going to jump into the questions that I have. Your book, Logo Design Love, came out a long time ago. It's actually one of my first logo design books from when I first got into graphic design, maybe 20 years ago. So how did the book first come about?. How did Logo Design Love come into the world originally?.

David Airey: I don't know if you were familiar with the personal blog that I had before Logo Design Love. DavidAirey.com was the main name.

Ian Paget: I was, yeah. Back then there was barely anything about logo design online. There was you and maybe Jacob Cass, but there was nothing like what there is now.

David Airey: Yeah, it was a different time. I had the personal blog and I spoke about a variety of things related to creativity; it wasn't solely logos. There would be a list of categories down the side of the page: dealing with clients, marketing, art, architecture—a whole raft of things. So it wasn't solely logos, but that's what I enjoyed designing the most. It seemed like a natural progression to start a different blog on its own domain and get "logo design" in the domain to help with search engine rankings. I started that in 2008. I went into self-employment in 2005. So for a couple of years, I'd been publishing blog posts on my personal blog, and then I wanted something logo-specific because that's what I enjoyed. So the Logo Design Love website came into the world, and after about a year of publishing that, I got an email out of the blue from a publisher in the States. The acquisitions editor there was Nikki McDonald, and she asked if I'd be interested in writing a book with Peach Pit, which was a subdivision of Pearson. I hadn't been thinking about writing a book, but yeah, I thought why not. This is what the first edition looked like—the white colour.

Ian Paget: For anyone that's listening just to the audio, David's sharing the first edition of his book.

David Airey: Yeah, at the time I thought, "Yeah, this is great.". I wasn't expecting to be an author, and working with a publisher was an eye-opener too. Whenever I was submitting the chapters for copy editing, they were coming back with red marks everywhere. So I wasn't great at writing, but that was one of the advantages of working with a publisher—it taught me how to edit better. It also made me appreciate that I'm not as good at this as I thought I might be. About 50% of the content was my work, and about 50% was from designers around the world that I asked to contribute because I didn't just want it to be about me. I was a young designer with not a lot of experience, and I wanted to bring on board the experience that other people could add to the book to make it more valuable for the readers. And that's how the book came about—just that email out of the blue from Nikki at Peach Pit.

Ian Paget: It's kind of wild because the book has become really successful.. I don't know what the sales are like, but I think anyone I know that's into logo design knows you and knows your book.. So it's really made a massive impact on the world.

David Airey: It's a hard one for me to quantify the sales figures. I don't know specifics. The English version of the book, I think, might have sold around 50,000. That's a guess.

Ian Paget: That's wild numbers. When you think it's very focused on logo design, I think that's incredible. But anyway, I wanted to ask you, why did you decide to release a new edition?. I believe it's the third edition, if I'm right.

David Airey: It will be the third edition. The second edition was published in 2014, and this third edition has come about due to my publisher more than anything. I got an email at the start of this year—about nine or ten months ago—mentioning that the book still sells. The second edition still sells despite being more than 10 years old. There was a need for a new print run. What was either going to happen was the paper quality was going to be reduced in order to improve their profit margins because, while it still sold, it didn't sell anywhere near as well as when it was first launched. Or the rights for the book would have been reverted to me and they would have taken it out of print. Then I could have self-published it if I wanted or perhaps taken it to another publisher. But if I was self-publishing it, then I would be responsible for the printing, the sales, and the distribution. You'll know that well with your own book.

Ian Paget: Yeah, it's not as easy to sell tens of thousands when you're doing it all yourself. It's fun, but it's a lot of work. I think if I do any more books, I would be working with a publisher just because you leave the responsibility of the production and everything with them. I feel they do a better quality as well.

David Airey: That's my thinking too. I didn't want to be responsible for everything to do with getting it out there. I like the writing aspect and I like learning from the designers who contributed. A third edition felt right because 2014 was more than 10 years ago, and we're always learning. I've learned a lot, and the quality of my work has improved in that time. The fact that the book was still selling is a reflection on where I am today. I didn't want people looking at my old work and thinking that's what I'm going to get to. Don't get me wrong, there are projects that I look at that were done that far back and they've stood the test of time, but there are others I look at and think, "I'd change that; I wouldn't do that.". I think that's natural for any designer really. It can sometimes only take a couple of years before you're already thinking you'd do it differently.

Ian Paget: Well, yeah, I think that's normal and should be the case. Worst case scenario for a graphic designer, if you did work 10 or 15 years ago and you think that's the best work you ever did, then you're not really growing. But if you look back and see stuff that could be better, then you've obviously grown. When I look at your website, everything looks so much slicker than it did. It's funny because you've always been one of the people I've looked up to and admired, even back then. Now it is on another level, and I can see you've grown a long way as a graphic designer and an author.

David Airey: Thank you very much, Ian. I appreciate that. It doesn't come solely as a result of my own initiative; there are other designers out there I look up to and I take inspiration from other websites. I try and factor that into my work—how it's laid out, keeping it simple, and elevating each project as I go along. I look back at the last project I've done and that's what I measure my newest projects on: look to the past, make it a little bit better, and gradually, over the years, that's where the improvement comes from.

Ian Paget: So, the big question everyone's going to have: What's new in the book?. What's changed since the second edition?. I've still got my first edition, so I would definitely be picking up a copy once this comes out.

David Airey: Well, I'll be more than happy to send you a copy. A publisher typically expects about 25% of the content to change from one edition to the next, but for this edition, it'll be closer to 40% or 50%. The 12 chapters from the second edition are going to remain pretty much intact in terms of the topic because I don't want to reinvent the wheel—it is a successful book. A lot of the content is being rewritten or slightly tweaked. My aim is to make it more timeless and actionable for the reader while leaving room for people to adapt what I say so they can work how they prefer to work. There’s going to be dozens of new examples from contemporary designers and updated visuals throughout. There will be some new sections on building trust and a Q&A about artificial intelligence. I’ll talk about client dynamics, negotiation, and provide a cleaner structure overall.

Ian Paget: It sounds really good. In terms of the look and size, is it the same sort of style as your other books?.

David Airey: It's going to be the same dimensions as the second edition—nine by seven inches. It's going to be a paperback. My previous two books with Rockport were hardback, but this one's going to be paperback. I asked my publisher about that, but due to cost reasons, it will be more accessible to the educational market and design students. I was very keen to avoid reducing the paper quality. I would have taken the rights back rather than reduce the paper quality because, as a designer, you know it matters how it feels.

Ian Paget: I understand that. You just can't do it in the same way with self-publishing. I appreciate that you've done that because the worst thing you want when you buy a graphic design book is for it to be poor quality. Graphic designers, we like our paper.

David Airey: Exactly. The feel of it is something tangible because we spend so much time looking at a screen.

Ian Paget: I noticed on your X or Twitter that you shared some cover experiments you were doing. You did maybe 20 different options?. Do you want to talk a little bit about that process?.

David Airey: People do judge a book by its cover. The first edition was white, the second was black. I thought about grey with white text and pitched that to my publisher. I’d actually put it on social media before showing it to my publisher, which in hindsight I shouldn't have done. My publisher was concerned it wouldn't stand out as well as it should, for example, on Amazon. When I put different designs together, there was one that stood out to them unanimously. It was black with bold, white, heavy set, all caps type. The tagline is slightly tweaked to be a guide to creating "iconic brand marks" because logos are the focus. It will stand out a bit more and it fits with my other books.

Ian Paget: It looks so much slicker than the first edition. It feels more relevant to where you are personally now.

David Airey: Just one small point about the cover: I had that red heart on the first and second editions. Having "love" in the title and a heart shape felt like a bit of an overload. The publisher asked if there was a way to keep that red aspect, so I put three little circles on there, and the third one is red. The first two represent the first and second editions; the red one represents the third. I want to overhaul the website to use those circles and that same type style as well.

Ian Paget: It's really hard as a graphic designer to keep your website updated, especially when it doesn't immediately bring in an income like client work does.

David Airey: Yes, definitely. We're exposed to so many excellent designers that it can easily make you feel like you're not doing enough. As long as you're making a comfortable living, you don't always need to be putting out new content. I should update my portfolio, though, because the last time I uploaded a new project was maybe a couple of years ago.

Ian Paget: I like to do at least a couple of new case studies a year to keep things fresh. I decided to take the focus away from my podcast for a while to focus on my daughter, who's six now. It's important to know what your priorities are. At that point in my life, I prioritised her over work. I'm 20 years into my career now and have enough of a presence online to attract clients, so I can focus on spending time with my daughter and less on social media. But I'm back doing this podcast again because I enjoy it.

David Airey: It's great to have you back; you had a very successful podcast.

Ian Paget: If there was one lesson you've added in since the last edition, what would that be?.

David Airey: I'm more confident about how I handle pricing. Some people say you need to find out a business's revenue before giving a price so you don't leave money on the table. That's never sat quite right with me. Instead, I explain the price range I generally charge. I'll say something along the lines of, "past clients have typically valued my work in the region of £10,000 to £25,000.". It saves a lot of time for both parties. Blair Enns has a saying about wanting to end up with a "double thank you.". You're thanking the client because you're happy with what you've earned, and they're thanking you because they see the value in what you do. I love what I do, and I figure out a way where I'm happy and the client is happy at the end. Michael Bierut once said, "your clients are my clients"—he deals with the same issues we do. In this new edition, the lessons on pricing will be more relevant to my level today.

Ian Paget: I personally do fixed pricing and it works for me. It's almost like you're doing value-based pricing without asking those awkward questions about revenue. I don't like those myself.

David Airey: I once asked—well, a client had asked ChatGPT what they could expect me to charge, and it was pretty much spot on. There’s a general range that designers with a certain level of experience will charge.

Ian Paget: I struggle to go above a certain price range, even now.. I would struggle to even say £5,000. How have you gone from charging in the hundreds at the beginning to being comfortable throwing out numbers like £10,000 or £20,000?.

David Airey: It's gradual. What makes a big difference is having enough in the bank. If you're busy enough and getting a lot of inquiries, it's easier to raise the rates. When you get those ones that pay more, you can spend more time on it. The quality of your work and portfolio improves, which makes it easier to justify what you're charging. Most of my clients aren't designers, but they have an idea of what good design looks like. If yours has that extra level of quality, they're going to choose you and be happier to pay what you're worth. I care for my craft and might fixate over anchor points for an hour or two; the client might not notice, but I do, and that extra time elevates the work. When you're in the field for a couple of decades, your pricing goes up like a ladder, little by little.

Ian Paget: I haven't had as much time for social media since focusing on my daughter. But people like you don't need to post every day to be found. You have the freedom to disappear for five years and people will still find you because you are established. People on a pedestal like Sagi Haviv or Michael Bierut aren't sitting on Facebook all day long.

David Airey: Well said. What do we do it for?.

Ian Paget: I do it for my daughter. Being self-employed gives you the freedom to make hard rules, like being at the front of the queue to collect her from school. Since you first released Logo Design Love, what have you done differently to charge that higher amount?.

David Airey: It’s hard to pinpoint one thing, but my presentation style has definitely improved. A large part of it is also having the published books—clients have a level of trust that I know what I'm doing. When I first became self-employed, I saw sleep as a distraction, but I have a different viewpoint now. Good sleep improves the work. Trust is essential, and you can show you're trustworthy through your portfolio and side projects, like your podcast. For me, it started with the blog. I’ve also moved away from negativity. I once published a post about someone ripping off my work, but I took it down. I avoid things like the "London 2012 logo disaster" post I once wrote. I try to keep things as positive as possible.

Ian Paget: What's your take on AI?.

David Airey: I see it as a tool.. I'm more positive about the design profession than society in general regarding AI.. Pum Lefebure said that as a designer, you'll have to force yourself to be more human than ever before.. Joanna Rocca noted that while generative AI was used in awards entries, what made the best work stand out was still the thinking, originality, and craft.. It can help speed up workflows, but we don't want to be hired just to type prompts. I use it to gather thoughts or summarise long-form articles, but I'm never going to use it to create a design.. I want to be sketching and playing with anchor points.

Ian Paget: I really loved that take. When does the third edition of Logo Design Love come out?.

David Airey: Ideally, it will be published in January or February 2026. People can buy it through the publisher Peach Pit, Amazon, or local bookstores. I'll be giving away some free copies through my newsletter at davidairey.substack.com.

Ian Paget: It's been amazing to speak with you again. Before we wrap this up, I'd like to mention that your early advice was part of the inspiration that made me feel I could be a logo designer.

David Airey: Thank you, Ian. Before we wrap up, I'd like to show your book, Make a Living Designing Logos. Thanks for what you do.

Ian Paget: No worries at all.