Designing America250: A Celebration of Independence

Ian Paget: So I'm going to start by asking you guys to briefly introduce yourself to the audience. Like I said, I normally do an introduction for the audience anyway, but I think because of the context of this particular project, I think it'd be really helpful if you could both briefly introduce yourself.

Valerie Aurilio: Well, I am general manager of Landor Chicago, Valerie Aurilio. I bring a mix of creative and strategic experience to that role of leading the Chicago office. I am a designer by heart, I've had a long creative career. I have deep experience in brand building and design. I've partnered with some of the biggest names in CPG and corporate identity across the nation, and the world, against a rich and varied list of categories. So anything from beauty, to baby care, to pharma, finance, food, tech.

I've seen a lot and I've done a lot across those categories. But regardless of what I'm working on, it's how we work at Landor that gets me really excited and who I get to work with. I love to get messy, I love to collaborate and roll up my sleeves with amazing creative talent that we have at Landor. And I love to chase the big idea.

Ian Paget: Brilliant. Thank you. And Phyllis, do you want to introduce yourself as well?

Phyllis Murphy: Sure. I'm Phyllis Murphy. I'm the executive creative director at Landor Chicago. I've been in branding for about 10 years. Before that I was an entertainment. And that's something I really like bringing into my job now, creating and building brands that feel big and bold and engaging. Of course, now I'm a verbal identity specialist, instead of a showbiz producer, but I love it just the same. I do a lot of brand naming, brand voice, brand writing, brand personality. And then essentially I just ultimately, the words to Val's pictures as we like to think of it.

Ian Paget: This is going to be really interesting having those two different perspectives from you both. So one of the reasons why I wanted to get you on is because you've been working on a massive multi-year campaign for America 250 Foundation. So you guys can explain this better than me. So would you mind giving the audience some background as to what this project is all about?

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah, I can do that. So in six years, or actually just under six years now, the United States of America is going to celebrate its 250th anniversary as a nation. So this is our semiquincentennial, which is just as hard to spell as it is. By the way. It's like 18,000 letters, we did give it a nickname. We've been calling it the semiquin for short. But it does actually promise to be the largest and most inclusive celebration in our country's history. So why wouldn't it have that many letters. And definitely as branders, and writers and designers, and as Val said, lovers of big ideas, this really was our opportunity as Landor to touch the hearts and minds of almost 400 million people. 350... who's counting? But across every state and territory. So just about the brief of a lifetime, as we like to say.

Ian Paget: Oh, yeah, it's a massive, massive project. And I can imagine, it was a big moment for Landor to actually land that project. I don't know if you guys was involved in it, because I know normally sales teams and so on would be involved in this. But do you have any idea what was involved in actually landing that project?

Valerie Aurilio: Well, it might not be as dramatic as you're imagining Ian. Because it is a huge project, but it's something that has had its start since 2016, actually, when Obama signed it into law and the U.S. Semiquincentennial Commission was officially designated to run this program and officially given the responsibility to create this effort and the celebration for the nation.

So that was many years ago. And I think through a long and winding road, finding the right partner who could take it on, but also had the passion to lean in and do it with the commission in a way that was pro bono, Landor was incredibly excited to lean into that partnership and really take a moment to be part of history. So that passion, it really is a passion project.

One year ago or one and a half years ago for me, literally on my July 4th vacation, I got a phone call from my regional boss saying, "You know what? You need to be in Washington in two weeks to present an America 250 identity." So from a Landor perspective, even though there were many conversations that led to it, it got dropped in Phyllis and I's lap very quickly, and we responded with a very passionate team to quickly put something together and go to Washington and talk to the commission about a potential America 250 brand identity, which was a very exciting time for us.

Ian Paget: So you was given two weeks? Two weeks?

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah. And we love working together that way. I mean, we actually are really, really agile as a studio. But I think Val and I really thrive in the moment together, I think that's where the visual and verbal gets really exciting. We always joke that it's like Saturday Night Live. Where you just write it and do it and perform it. And then you move on, and you go again. So I think it was actually part of the fun.

Ian Paget: Yeah, yeah. Are you quite used to working at that speed, because it seems like a very ambitious project for a very short period of time?

Valerie Aurilio: We are used to working with that speed. And in fact, we pride ourselves in it. But there's a few things that make it possible. I mean, one is the incredibly talented people we work with, as well as their creative bravery. So it takes some courage to work that quickly. It means we work rough, and we work raw. People put ideas on the table, they put designs on the table that are unfinished, and we work together to really create magic out of that. But you do have to be brave to work that quickly. And to do it in a way where the quality and the beautiful craftsmanship is really there.

Ian Paget: Oh, absolutely. And you mentioned this is all a pro bono project for Landor?

Valerie Aurilio: The initial identity development was, absolutely. And we were so inspired by the purpose that America 250 came to us with which was grounded in our nation's founding principles. We exist to inspire the American spirit in every American and all Americans, as we journey together towards a more perfect union. It was a mission that we felt passionate about, and to use Phyllis' words, again, it's we have coined it the brief of a lifetime in our studio.

Ian Paget: And I think this type of thing, being in your portfolio, I don't know what scale it would be launched out at. But I'm picturing that this is probably a big deal when it all happens. Having a project like this, it's going to definitely attract other work.

Phyllis Murphy: Hopefully!

Ian Paget: So this is a brand that celebrates 327 million American perspectives. But you need to use branding to bring that all together into one. How do you do that? Could you talk through how you guys went about approaching this project to solve that challenge? Because I recently worked on a project that was just for a location. And that was hard. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about the process that went into this whole thing.

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah. It's an excellent question. Luckily, America is all about celebrating a diversity of perspective. So building a brand around that actually makes a lot of sense and comes rather naturally. What I think we tried to do as a layer on top of that was really identify a way to capture the American spirit. We really started with this idea of, it's almost elegant ideals, meaning revolutionary grid. And if that is what defines us all as Americans, no matter who we are, or what our perspectives are, what our history is, what our nationality was before this, that that's really something that brings us together. Our country is really defined by diversity. So it felt like it made a lot of sense to really go after the American spirit and capture that.

And obviously, that idea from many one has always just been very relevant to our culture as a nation. But there's a couple of other things that were more tactical. So one of the things we did was create a very lean messaging platform, because as you can imagine, the desire to tell every single story a million different ways, especially, it was such a massive undertaking. That can muddy things up from a brand perspective, you need to stay pretty focused. So we built a very lean messaging platform that we could filter visuals and verbal through, that's really based on the principles, again, that start to define the American spirit, which is unite, educate, engage.

So everything we look at or evaluate or create has to fall under one of those things or it's not America 250. So that helped a lot with just trying to focus and narrow. Also, just creating, from myself perspective as a verbal identity specialist, having a consistent and unified tone of voice, was another really important aspect of creating a brand. So something that could actually express the American spirit. Something that could flex from being very commemorative and honorific to actually being a little bit provocative and rebellious. Again, that elegant ideals, meets revolutionary grit, we wanted that to come through in a very unified tone of voice that felt like it could hold a lot of different perspectives.

Ian Paget: So I'm interested to dig into the process of that a little bit.

Valerie Aurilio: Okay.

Ian Paget: Because I know when I came into this conversation, I didn't have any background as to the length of time that you had on the project. I had the assumption this might have been something that you'd been working on for a long period of time, huge budgets and so on. So I picked it that you would possibly have to go into a lot of research, having conversations, doing all the usual user research or anything like that, to speak to Americans in general. Was there anything like that for this? Or have you, because of the restraints on time, have you needed to reference what you already know yourself, living in the country?

Valerie Aurilio: Well, I can answer that. I mean, the commission itself, and the America 250 Foundation have embarked on quite a bit of research over the past two years, where they've discovered things like, even though right now our country, and especially right now, feels divided physically, socially, politically, that division is a perspective and a perception that's permeating, I think national and international news.

Phyllis Murphy: Agreed.

Valerie Aurilio: But when the commission actually did research among Americans across a very diverse section of the population, they found that 80% of Americans feel that unity is the right theme. And they also found that 80% of Americans are proud to be American, still. A lot of other research, and then the themes of educate, unite and engage were also very well received. So the foundation itself has done some research that really led to this very purposeful mission statement that I mentioned before.

Ian Paget: Yeah.

Valerie Aurilio: So that work has been done. Now, I think the creative work, as I said, has been more intuitive coming from us, very based on that strategy that was put on the table. I think, to your point Ian, the work to come, as more agencies get involved and more, hopefully, creative people get involved, I think that research is to come. They're currently conducting listening sessions as well. So as a full group, and a powerful cross functional team with the commission and the agencies that are coming in, that work is to come to make sure that we're not only speaking to the nation, but we're really activating in engaging different audiences across the country.

Ian Paget: Yeah. So on that basis, does that mean that this is potentially something that will evolve and become what it needs to be, rather than existing as what it is that you created?

Valerie Aurilio: I think the identity, the logo identity itself, will stay in its form in the sense that it's been protected by the US government, the semiquin language has been protected. The Department of Justice is involved, that's who you want in your corner when you're trying to protect a brand. Because it is the official America 250 organisation for the nation.

But our hope, and our vision for this brand is that it does evolve, and that it's a six year and beyond conversation that partners, states, government officials, every organisation like the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, Major League Baseball, we want everybody involved in this conversation and ultimately individuals as well. And we see this brand experimentally evolving over the next six years. It's really a new era in branding in that it's not about control and consistency. It's actually about a cohesive brand experience that can evolve and people can participate in.

‍Ian Paget: So we've spoken so far about the messaging and how the brand will be communicated to the audience. Are you able to share a little bit more about the process for how you came up with the identity for this?

Valerie Aurilio: Oh, Ian I thought you would never ask. Being the Logo Geek Podcast I was hoping you would.

Ian Paget: I like to give some background.

Valerie Aurilio: Yes. So it's just been an amazing process. So in the beginning, when we first got our brief, we activated all four studios across the US. So Chicago, New York, San Francisco, and Cincinnati. We had creatives across those four studios, engage in the first design rounds around what should this brand identity be. So we've had cross country crits, where we looked at every possible expected and unexpected symbology of the American spirit.

As you can imagine, there were no shortage of stars and stripes and flags, eagles, torches, red, white and blue in a space and a topic that has been so well trod in the past, you can imagine how much we had to get out on the table, in order to really interrogate and explore what the symbol or identity should be.

It was an incredible challenge to create something that was recognisable as American. So again, something that could provide unity and engage everyone, but not really familiar or dated, or even trite. Because, again, the symbols and iconography around the topic of America are just vast. So we dismissed a lot of things that came out in the beginning. We dismissed marks that had combinations of colours or forms or symbols that started to queue, for example a certain branch of the military, or it started to queue political campaigns. Or it was all red, or it was all blue. One or the other. We want to avoid anything that felt divisive in that way. A lot of stuff we looked at, started to feel sports, or we had a beautiful identity that was based on the torch of the Statue of Liberty, and we had to let it go because it was actually feeling very Olympic in nature.

And so because these symbols are so well ingrained in culture, we really had to find a solution that felt recognizable as American, but not something that was already owned by someone else. So as you can imagine, just the massive amounts of digital and physical paper trail that was created, as we put things up on the wall and really had discussions about, "Oh, no, that starts to feel to this to that," whatever. So really rich, creative design conversations. And then including that verbal personality and understanding how that was developing at the same time. Again, as Phyllis said, our verbal and our visual processes inform each other throughout the process.

Ian Paget: Right, right. Can I just quickly ask, so you mentioned that all four studios were working on this simultaneously. How did you coordinate that? How did that all work? Did you have to all meet up in one location? Or did you do a Zoom? How did that look from a process point of view?

Valerie Aurilio: Yes, we were doing remote working before we had to be remote, anyway. We do consider our talent to be boundaryless at Landor. So we would have all the creatives on the call, Phyllis and I were the creative leads on the project. And it was about wrangling all of that work and really giving inspiring and vibrant briefs to get people involved and passionate about the project and aligned with the mission. And then also just having really honest and candid crits where we were like, "Nope, that feels like the military. Nope, that feels like Major League Baseball." So really being collaborative, yet having that vision for the brand in order to bring everything together.

Ian Paget: And how did you know when you found the solution that is out there now?

Valerie Aurilio: That's such a great question, Ian. I mean, ultimately, the best solutions are the simplest solutions. So we determined that expressing the name America 250 in the mark was the most elegant and own-able solution. So our brand identity was created to capture the American spirit. So when we looked at the typography that now sits over the logo, we saw the strength and the fierceness of the American spirit in that typography. And the way that now we can really geek out, the way that some of those serifs click together and connect, really stood for that collective strength of ourselves as a nation. And that we stand together in that American spirit.

And then that word mark of America was literally stamped on top of what we like to call 250 years of dynamic and very human history. So all of the lines in the 250, those billowing lines, again, ultimately represent the diversity and mix of perspectives that have brought us through the last 250 years and then importantly, will propel us to the next 250 years as well. So when we saw that we felt like it was recognisable and own-able, because the 250th anniversary was embedded in the mark, so there was no mistaking what this was about. And then that strength of the American spirit stamped on top of it was really what brought it home for us.

Ian Paget: I'm going to have to include an image in the show notes, because if people don't know what we're talking about right now, it's going to be hard to understand. So I'll include an image in the show notes, and I'll link to the America 250 website so that people can get a feel for the brand. But something that you didn't say, I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it reminded me a little bit of American currency as well.

Valerie Aurilio: Yes.

Ian Paget: The detail on money and stamps. And yeah, I think you nailed it, it really does have a real feel of America. But it's something that I haven't seen before.

Valerie Aurilio: I'm glad you brought that up, because the other piece that our team was so inspired about was the fact that the anti counterfeit, the history of design there is so beautiful from a design perspective, when you think about passport documents and founding documents and currency. And that design language really did inspire that engraved look on the 250 as well as some of the flourishes or ornaments that you'll see in the full brand identity. And we linked that back to the idea that the American spirit cannot be replicated.

So as an American, if you travel the world, you understand that about yourself upon return, that the American spirit is something that's a unique perspective on the world, and it just can't be replicated. So we like to working that through a design idea around this anti counterfeit aesthetic. So I loved that you picked that up.

Ian Paget: Yeah, it was the first thing I noticed. It really did remind me of, I guess, as someone that isn't American, that doesn't live in America, if I ever need to go there, one of the first things that you need is the currency or whenever you communicate with anyone in America, you need the stamps and so on. And it just captures that feel that you associate with the country when you travel there as an outsider. There's a quality to it. I don't know exactly what it is. But it does reference a lot of the history of the country like the legal system. It references all of that in some way. And it's a clever solution, I think.

Phyllis Murphy: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, even that idea, from many one, E Pluribus Unum, which is we carefully avoided saying that because we certainly weren't trying to link our identity so closely to money that it felt shallow. But again, that artisanship to creating something that can't be duplicated and then also acknowledging that from many one. That principle that goes back to our individuality within a diversity of perspective. So it is a profound mark, and it's so interesting to everyone, I think. So maybe you want to link people to it as well.

Ian Paget: Well, I don't see any harm.

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah.

Ian Paget: I mean, my knowledge of the origins of America is probably from Hamilton. You know the play, Hamilton?

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, that was inspiring too, how we own a voice to be honest, that idea. That's the elegant, revolutionary grit right there, is Hamilton.

Ian Paget: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it captures that. And I think part of that foundation is the legal system.

Phyllis Murphy: Yep.

Ian Paget: So whether that was intentional or not, to bring in that reference to the origins of a legal system that unites everybody together, it works. Whether that was intentional or not. It's interesting when you create a mark like that, that you can read all of these things into it, even before it's had a chance to bring all of these meanings and so on together through association.

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah.

Valerie Aurilio: Yeah.

Phyllis Murphy: Absolutely. And you should check out the bicentennial logo, they couldn't be more different.

Ian Paget: Sure. Sure. I'll link to that as well.

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting to us if you just hold them up to one another. It's profoundly different approach to expressing the identity of our nation.

Ian Paget: Okay. I'll check that out. Okay, so as a team, as a company, you narrowed down, I assume it was hundreds of different options to what you felt was the perfect solution. So I don't know how it works in your case, especially since this was pro bono, but was there any... Did you need to present this to anybody? How did that side of the process work? Did you need to go to someone and sell this dream or? Can you share some insight into that?

Valerie Aurilio: We did have to sell this dream. We went to Washington, and first we did a small executive version of the commission, so that they could narrow and we presented probably six different marks to them. And ultimately, after several rounds, and we do as an agency, like to listen. And so that is one of our superpowers where we really took the input of the commission, but also gave them the power of our broad perspective on the nation and the industry in a more commercial space and brought that to them as their partners, as they were coming from a more governmental perspective.

So we had both of those perspectives come into this as we narrowed. And ultimately, I think what sold this mark in was that it was both modern and historic at the same time. So I think that was the magic of the sell in. And I remember thinking to myself, as I was standing in front of the commission, "They have no idea what they've signed up for." I think they fell in love with the mark itself. And the idea that it did have a sense of historic modernity to it.

But I think when we were thinking about the full brand expression, which Phyllis and I later went to DC and presented to the commission, we were thinking, "They have no idea how cool this is going to be. And we're so happy for the country, that they've made a bold choice by working with us and choosing this identity, which is going to lead to this really beautiful, exciting brand expression. And they have no idea what they're in for."

So we were happy with the sell, and we were happy that they were happy. But what we didn't want to do, is take something and allow input from a group of people that are so brilliant, but not designers, and not marketers. And so we wanted to make sure that we brought our expertise to the table, combined with their amazing reverence and respect and intellect for this anniversary and brought something that the whole country could embrace. So we were thrilled with their choice.

Ian Paget: So how many did you present? I mean, at the moment, I'm focusing on the logo, specifically. We can go into the brand after this. But did you just present the one and show what it could potentially be? Or did you present a number of potential directions?

Valerie Aurilio: We presented six directions to the smaller commission group. And then Phyllis and I went to DC with one, that the executive commission was recommending to the full commission. And it was quite a meeting, wasn't it, Phyllis?

Phyllis Murphy: It certainly was. But that's the American spirit right there. We're going down to DC, in our pantsuits, and we are going to present one logo to one of the most powerful commissions that we've ever been in front of in our lives. But I think that was super exciting, that moment where you are presenting the identity for a nation to people who actually work for the nation. Federal employees, commissioners, people whose entire soul is really embedded in how our government and how our nation functions. And it's a moment of, I mean, in some ways, it's like that moment of you are confident, but then you're also a little bit creatively out there. You're either going to sink or swim in that moment.

So I thought it was thrilling. I needed like five cigarettes after we finished. I dragged Valerie to a park to sit on a bench with me and we just smiled and I mean, people were so enthusiastic over actually having something. This was the first manifestation. This was the first thing you could feel, look at, touch. And it actually made the whole experience real to everyone.

Ian Paget: Yeah. Yeah.

Phyllis Murphy: Before it was like it was on paper and it was line items and a budget and things shuffling around and decisions being made in committees. But all of a sudden, they had something they could look at and that they could, I mean, identify with.

Ian Paget: Yeah, yeah.

Phyllis Murphy: So it was as exciting to present as it was to watch them understand what it meant to be America 250 finally after a year or so of anticipation.

Ian Paget: Sure, sure. I just want to put a little bit of focus on this presentation. So you mentioned that there was two that you needed to do. There was one where you needed to present six.

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah.

Valerie Aurilio: Yeah.

Ian Paget: And then you presented it, I guess it's to the people that have the final say, the one direction. So these six that you needed to present, were you sold by any of the other options, or was you always really quite confident in this one direction that you take it in?

Valerie Aurilio: I think we had, of the six we presented, I think we had four that we would have been really excited to pursue as Landor.

Ian Paget: Sure.

Valerie Aurilio: And as designers and creatives. There were three buckets that we presented in. One bucket had marks that felt much more bold, simple and modern. So much more abstracted, bold shapes, and simplicity. There was another mark that was more about of the people. And so it was much more casual and celebratory and had a bit more of a hands-on feel to it. And then there was this other bucket, which the final mark came out of which was the modern, historic bucket.

Ian Paget: Right.

Valerie Aurilio: And so we really did present three different approaches to the design. And that really helps people when you're in a meeting when they're not designers, and they're not marketing experts, it helps them understand the implications of what you're saying if you can group them into approaches. And so the modern approach, there just wasn't enough history to it. It looked only like where we were going. And then the casual mark was beautiful and approachable and maybe more appropriate for the commercial space. And it just didn't have the gravitas that we needed to be able to, for example, fly over a war memorial, as well as be present at the 1000s and millions of picnics that will be happening on 2026 July 4th. So it was a mark that could stretch and flex and do the things we needed to do without being too much of one thing.

Ian Paget: Sure. Okay. Okay. So the presentation where you shown the one thing, because the audience is made up of graphic designers, I'd love to know, and you can get really nerdy about details and so on. What did you present? What exactly was it that you shown to this group of people?

Phyllis Murphy: Well, we showed obviously the mark, but then we actually started putting the mark in some of those contexts that Valerie was just rattling through. We did fly it on a flag. So we created a prototypical or illustrative example of what that would look like. We wanted to see it on a T-shirt, on a coke can, on a pair of Levi's. We wanted to let them know it could be commercial, we put it on sneakers, we put it on baseball uniforms.

We celebrated the experience of America 250 almost across every category and sector you could think of to show them that flexibility and to show them that stretch. So that it was going to be honorific when it needed to be, it was going to be celebratory and fun and cheeky, where it needed to be. And then it was going to be everything in between. So we went down there with just a lot of Insitu applications to help them really understand what this world would look like when we built it out completely over the next six years, of course, but lots of dream pieces, lots of what ifs.

Ian Paget: So was it like a PowerPoint presentation?

Phyllis Murphy: Oh, yeah.

Ian Paget: Yeah?

Valerie Aurilio: It was. We actually did bring real prototypes of T-shirts and pens. Because a commission loves a good piece of merch. So we had some physical things that we brought with us, we had some boards to ensure literally, that people understood our colour theory around why we had chosen the specific colours, and we passed some of that around. But ultimately, it was a PowerPoint presentation. And it took place in the historic Decatur House, which we could literally see the white house from the window as we were presenting.

Ian Paget: That is cool. So in terms of these physical items that you had made up, I've only heard a few people do this, and I mean, it makes sense too, in this particular case. But I think in situations where you can actually show the real thing, it cements it. It already makes it like this is it rather than this is what you could potentially have. And I assume that's one of the reasons why you actually had a few bits physically made up.

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah. I think that's the stew. And then also, we had to protect those. Because it wasn't a public identity yet. This was a presentation, we were building that consensus around the identities. So we did have physical objects made up. But then we had to protect them from being sneaked out of the Decatur House so that there wasn't any leaks around the identity before we were really unveiling the final version. So that was interesting, too.

Ian Paget: Oh, okay. That's interesting. I haven't heard anyone that's needed to do that kind of thing.

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah.

Ian Paget: Yeah. It makes sense, you don't want anyone to take this and register, especially after doing so much work. So I mean, on that basis, was there anything that you needed to do as an agency for security reasons to prevent any of this stuff going out? Because it's a project of that scale that needs some level of security around it.

Valerie Aurilio: Yeah, in these early days, it was literally just the Landor Studios working on it. And so from an agency standpoint, it was internal. But then it does relate back to why there wasn't an extensive amount of testing, we weren't putting this up on digital panels and things like that to see what people thought. And although we wanted to, we were also really balancing that with, if this gets out too soon, if people see this, if someone picks it up, we're just dead in the water. And so it was a really interesting mix of protection. And then obviously, taking all of the right precautions with vendors that we're doing our T-shirts and things like that with NDAs, but making sure we were legally protected there. But also just really loath to let it out, because it's such a big topic. And I think it will be a vulnerable topic. And so we didn't want it to leak before we were able to appropriately launch it.

Phyllis Murphy: Right.

Ian Paget: Yeah, sure, sure. Okay, so we've spoken briefly about the initial language that you came up with, we've spoken about the logo. And I know, there's a whole load of other stuff that you're doing as well. Do you want to share a little bit about that as well? So the rest of the brand identity and everything else that you're doing along with that?

Valerie Aurilio: Sure. It's early days yet. And as we build this, some of the things we're looking forward to creating, it's really more of a motion graphics package around it. So ManvsMachine is a Landor company, and they are world class motion graphic designers. And so we would love to get them involved. We're so excited to do that.

We're very excited about what signature sound might be for this brand, and for this experience. I mean, I think ambiently the story of American music will be a rich topic for the brand. But as far as an own-able brand identity sound, we're very curious to go after that. And then we're also curious and excited to start creating what those experiences might be, as we look forward to people beginning to participate and recognise this brand. Phyllis, do you have more to add?

Phyllis Murphy: No. I mean, I think that's perfectly said. As you started talking, I got excited about sound all over again though, because a lot of the American spirit sound, I drifted away there creatively for a second.

Ian Paget: I did too.

Phyllis Murphy: I know.

Ian Paget: Because it's like, oh, this is fascinating... I wonder what it would sound like?

Phyllis Murphy: It sounded like and looked like was hard from a verbal and visual. But it'll be interesting to work with the Smithsonian Institutes and create, yes, a landscape of sound that celebrates the indelible mark America has made on music in the world. But also, if you just had to get it to three seconds, what does it sound like? I mean, it's so exciting.

Ian Paget: Yeah. And challenging as well.

Phyllis Murphy: And challenging. When you hear something that isn't it, you'll know it.

Ian Paget: Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. But yes, nailing that sound. So yeah, challenging. So I also wanted to ask you guys, because I understand that you're not doing this project on your own as an agency. And that FITCH is also involved in it. And it sounds like other agencies will also be involved in this. So how does it work when there's multiple agencies working on a project like this? Is there any guidelines or anything that you're able to do as an agency to bring in consistency or is it like the company itself? So the America 250 company organising all of that collaboration?

Valerie Aurilio: Well, right now, the America 250 Foundation is really partnering with us and looking to us for consultation in that space. Brand management and stewardship is something that we have a long history in. I think the first part of your question is an easy one, actually, because Landor and FITCH have actually merged as a company, and as a design agency and branding agency. So it's relatively new news in the industry. But Landor and FITCH came together about like 18 months ago. And so now we are officially LANDOR & FITCH and we've become-

Ian Paget: Oh, okay.

Valerie Aurilio: Yeah. So we've become the largest brand agency in the world, which allows us also bringing FITCH into the Landor fold, allows us to be incredible brand builders and strategic designers, along with the brand experience and retail and digital expertise of FITCH. So together, it makes perfect sense.

Ian Paget: Oh, wow, that's fascinating. So I mean, obviously, I did a little bit of research prior to doing this. And at the moment, as an outsider, it still looks like two separate organisations. So I guess that's still transitioning at the moment.

Valerie Aurilio: Yes. 2021 we'll be big. With us coming together one side and one...

Ian Paget: Oh, that's exciting.

Valerie Aurilio: Yeah.

Ian Paget: Exciting stuff. Okay. Okay. So once you finished all the design work that you did, has there been any official launch of this and how did you go about doing that initially?

Valerie Aurilio: So currently, we are still in the very exciting phase of building this airplane as we try to fly it. And there's no place Phyllis and I would rather be as creative partners with someone, especially America 250. And so part of this endeavour for us is to work with the commission and the foundation to make this dream real, to use your words, Ian. To really sell the dream. And I think for the brand to take hold in the hearts and minds of the American people that will help draw bigger partners, both government and non government and corporate and commercial partners to help us actually build this experience for the nation.

So it will be a self-fulfilling destiny. What we put into building this and architecting this experience is what the nation will get out of it. And so that's been a really interesting place for us to be. So the work has only just begun, we do anticipate July 4th 2021, being a large public awareness piece that needs to happen, because that will be the five year mark. And that will be a wonderful time to introduce the brand to the public and really start driving that awareness.

Ian Paget: Sure, sure. Okay. So there's like, five to six years to go until this all becomes a big thing and everybody gets involved. So what's next for this project?

Phyllis Murphy: I think there's the possibility of really having a signature moment around what comes next for the semiquin because the celebration could continue in an interesting way. We've talked a lot about creating almost like a digital monument or archive. We're just in a brainstorming. It's interesting to now be brainstorming seven years ahead instead of six years ahead. So once July 4th 2026 is over, I think this actually starts to get more interesting and a lot of the assets that we've created, a lot of the assets that other people contribute to with their own creativity. I think those could actually become a living, breathing, eternal monument.

Ian Paget: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, 250 is a very significant landmark. And America is in itself fascinating that it actually has that fairly recent origin story. I think you're right, there's no reason why whence, what was it? 2026-

Phyllis Murphy: Yep.

Ian Paget: ... comes that this could become the foundation for so much creativity and it's going to be completely out of your control.

Phyllis Murphy: That's what's so exciting, though, sometimes. I think, especially as creatives and I know, Val would agree that there's something very exciting about giving over creative control and letting other people create around what you've created. I mean, that is the free exchange of ideas, and it's the free exchange of creativity. And I think that's part of what makes this brand special as well, is that invitation to participate and engage in a way that's really never been done with a national identity before.

Ian Paget: Yeah. Well, it's going to be really exciting for you because it will have a life of its own and you literally have no idea what it's going to become. It's going to be quite exciting, I think. It's a long time to see what actually happens. But yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what this becomes as well as you. Okay. So we've got about eight minutes or so. So I'm going to ask one last question for you. And we'll see where this goes.

So you've done a lot of work with this project, you've both been working together. It sounds like it's been a huge, potentially challenging project. So what's been the biggest lesson or the biggest takeaway from working on a project of this scale?

Phyllis Murphy: I love that question. Actually, for two reasons. One, because I think the answer is interesting. But also, I think it connects back to the first question you asked about how do you create a brand for 327.5 million people? My biggest lesson, or my most valuable lesson has been doing that without being generic. I'm used to having a target audience, but a target audience of almost 400 million people, that is a little different. So creating a brand that can be universal and resonant, but not generic or trite. I think that's been a super valuable lesson for me creatively and very inspiring creatively.

Ian Paget: Sure. Sure. And Valerie, do you have any thoughts of your own?

Valerie Aurilio: I do. I think we work in an industry that thinks in minutes, in hours, days. If you're lucky, we think in weeks. So back to our recent conversation about the timing, I think thinking about how we want to progress the work and the brand over the next six years takes a vision. So a vision that has some flexibility in it, but a vision nonetheless. And so we want to go from awareness in 2021, to full national participation in 2025 and 2026 and beyond.

So when we're talking to people in 2020, they're looking at us, like, "Why would I get involved now? This is still six or seven years away." And in my head, I'm always thinking, "It's only six years away, we have so much to do and create and build."

So this idea of being able to attract people to the mission and attract people to come in and help build the experience over a long period of time, I think that's been a mind shift for us to really build it from scratch, and think about the six year strategy and how to get people involved and excited and inspired so that the vision that we have for this brand of full participation from the nation can actually come true.

So it's a very interesting model for us to be working in. It's not just a brief and here's your logo, it's actually come join us from America 250, help us build this, be thought leaders and design and creativity and transformation. And that's what we're trying to do. So it's a very exciting time for us, but also a lot of lessons to be learned along the way and how to think at that scale.

Phyllis Murphy: Yeah.

Ian Paget: And I know that my audience based on stats, there is a high percentage of US listeners, it's almost I think, 40% of listeners of this particular podcast is from the United States. So I think I need to ask, on behalf of them, how do they get involved? And how do they find out more about this project to potentially get involved in it in some way?

Valerie Aurilio: What a fantastic question. I love that. I love come one, come all. We need help. So I think the short answer to that is, as we launch into a public awareness in 2021, you will start seeing this come to life across hundreds of federal agencies. So think things like national parks services, they've officially announced their partnership with America 250. Think big commercial partners, think states and all of the ways that the states are adopting this as we try to get them into the fold and come into this America 250 identity, but in a way that celebrates their state, that stuff will start to trickle down through those state commissions as well.

And so as it goes from very national, all the way to local, there should be opportunity and organisations that are looking for help in expressing this, designing experiences, creating opportunities for people to play and be part of the celebration. So we hope that it will permeate through all of those channels, sectors, organisations in the country.

Ian Paget: Yeah, yeah. Well, I can definitely picture that even listeners of this, that are interested in logo design, they could even do their own variant of the 250. And see what comes of it. A little bit like the LA Olympics logo, has that part where people can do their own version of it, I can see this being something like that as well, potentially.

Valerie Aurilio: Yeah. Artistic interpretations of it. As well as interpretations of the way that we layer the story. So sometimes we've created things where we layer the 250, your moment of American spirit that you want to celebrate and then the America on top of that. So it's built to layer and play, and express. And we can't wait to see what some of the artistic and design interpretations turn out to be.

Ian Paget: Amazing. Amazing. Well, I think that's probably a good point to wrap up this interview. But I think it's been absolutely fascinating. And as I said at the beginning of the conversation, this is a huge, fascinating project and for both of you, it's the project of a lifetime, isn't it? So thank you for sharing some of the background, some of the insights into what you've been working on. And yeah, I look forward to seeing what the listeners think of this episode. So thank you so much for your time.

Phyllis Murphy: Thanks, Ian.

Valerie Aurilio: Thank you, Ian. It was a pleasure.